Proof Jesus Christ Never Existed - By Brett Keane
posted by Brett Keane at 2:17 AM
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4 Comments:
As an atheist I get really happy when a Christian introduces Justin Martyr to the discussion.
Yukkione, I submitted this thought to Brett Keane's video which he uploaded to Youtube but perhaps it bears repeating with some additional thought. Mr. Keane mentions both Justin Martyr and Josephus. Of course, Jospehus' "Flavium Testimonium" is nearly universally considered to be a late Christian insertion if not in full, at least in part. The earliest quotation of it comes from the 4th century Church Father, Eusebius. I think this is significant since an appeal to Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews would have served so well in earlier Christian debates such as Justin Martyr's *Dialogues with Trypho the Jew.* Trypho is made to say that if Christ were born and lived then his existence is wholly unknown and what a time to quote Josephus to Trypho if such a comment as the Flavium Testimonium had been in existence at that time. I also find it highly strange that Josephus would devote whole chapters to petty crooks and thieves, yet, would devote only about six lines about one whom he calls "Christ." Mr. Keane made a good point in stating that if Josephus had actually written the passage and believed it then he would have become a Christian which he never did.
Actually I'm working on a completely logical proof of Jesus never having existing...
It's almost done, but needs some better step-wise organization.
I'll post it when I can simplify the argument...
Thanks again Brett!
Because Josephus mentions Jesus in only six lines how does this support the fact he didnt exist, the fact of the matter is that he mentions him no matter how many lines. What about the writings of Paul who was in-fact a writer that was supported by church fathers of that time and through his writings, for the fact that his letters support his disability of blindness caused from him seeing Jesus. You say that Josephus mentioned Hercules and he believed in him, well if Josephus was a Jew by religion then I wouldn't dare to say he believed in there existance, nor would I begin to say that he believed in them just because he mentioned them you are assuming way too much by saying this. And just because Josephus did not convert to Christianity does not mean he did not believe in Christ, there are Jewish Christians (mentioned in the bible) or the other term Messianic Jews. Just because one witnesses the miracles of Jesus does not mean that they would result in automatic conversion, the Pharisees witnessed these miracles and called them witchcraft and yet Jesus still fullfilled every policy, and they still didnt believe, so I would say that your wrong again for saying because one witnesses the miracles of Jesus they would become a believer. I did some research on Appolonius of Tyrana even though I don't see the relevance of mentioning him in your argument, and from the research I have done he isn't like Jesus very much at all except for the fact that he had disciples which was common for philosophers at the time, that he was persecuted by those who were religious, and finally he performed "miracles" which are still very much disputed for the fact that there are few credible sources that wittnessed them (I got this information from numerous websites). I want to point something out, that Jesus had prophets before his time prophesize about the things he would do in order for you to determine that he was the Messiah, I don't believe many of these other pagan characters and alike have this, so please point to me the similarities, and these are numerous prophets from different periods in time that verify one anothers prophecies. And i dont understand the importance of using Justin Martyr and not other biblical scholars because I think they would have better arguments to combat since they have more oppurtunities to modern resources and more modern ideas. Whereas Justin Martyr didnt have the same revolutionary ideas that are were out there today like some of the other apologists hold. Wouldnt you say the more recent concepts of the bible would be better to debate and challenge seeing as they have more burdening of evidence behind them than say Justin Martin from A.D 100, it just doesnt make logical sense to why you would go to him to debate. I precede to say there are no contradictions in the bible, point to me a contradiction that you believe to be one and I will attempt to offer you an answer because scripture is inerrant (there is nothing you can put before me that God has not already carved an answer) And because there is resemblance in Christianity to pagan religions how does this discredit Christianity and its teachings. Of course there will be similarities, but the core concepts of the religions will be different. And many of the similarties are in the customs practiced in Christianity, and this is because the pagan religions converted to Christianity and brought some of their past beliefs with them but shedding them in a Christian light. Take the Romans for example when they converted to Christianity they brought one of their pagan rituals with them that celebrated the Winter Solstice now known as Christmas. Even the point that you made about them sharing the same resemblance in diety, in what way does this discredit the religion, no one truly knows the appearance of Christ, and you cannot try to seek to discover the truth through the art as you so mentioned, because art is the interpretation and expression of ones own perception. And I hardly believe that Christians believe in the diety of Christ because of how he appeared in comparison to other religions gods(pointless argument and doesn't prove that Jesus doesnt exist.) And how are is Christianity copying these myths especially like Dionysus, I dont understand how you attempt to make the logical connection to the god of whine and the King of Kings....please make the logical connection so I can attempt to pretend like I understand what your talking about. And what is really annoying me about your movies is that you continually make broad and general statments without real solid information or evidence i.e "If you study up on Buddha or the Hindu religions, every single teaching or what people and Christians would consider to be morality in the bible was already taught by the pagan religions"......this statement is entirely oppinionated and has no solid evidence, how do you get that Christianity all of a sudden copies from the pagan religions because it is similar. It isnt uncommon for cultures to have some of the same ethical teachings, there is nothing to support that Christianity came directly from those religions. What are the dates that inform me of Christianities existence and the sources which it recieves its teachings from, because according to original text they recieve alot of their foundational teaching from the Jewish religion.
-just.a.th0ught
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